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←etter 58. On beingMoral letters to Luciliusby Seneca, translated by Richard Mott GummereLetter 59. On pleasure and joyLetter 60. On harmful prayers→483034Moral letters to Lucilius — Letter 59. On pleasure and joyRichard Mott GummereSeneca LIX. ON PLEASURE AND JOY 1. I received great pleasure from your letter; kindly allow me to use these words in their everyday meaning, without insisting upon their Stoic import. For we Stoics hold that pleasure is a vice. Very likely it is a vice; but we are accustomed to use the word when we wish to indicate a happy state of mind. 2. I am aware that if we test words by our formula,[1] even pleasure is a thing of ill repute, and joy can be attained only by the wise. For “joy” is an elation of spirit,—of a spirit which trusts in the goodness and truth of its own possessions. The common usage, however, is that we derive great “joy” from a friend’s position as consul, or from his marriage, or from the birth of his child; but these events, so far from being matters of joy, are more often the beginnings of sorrow to come. No, it is a characteristic of real joy that it never ceases, and never changes into its opposite.[2] 3. Accordingly, when our Vergil speaks of The evil joys of the mind,[3] his words are eloquent, but not strictly appropriate. For no “joy” can be evil. He has given the name “joy” to pleasures, and has thus expressed his meaning. For he has conveyed the idea that men take delight in their own evil. 4. Nevertheless, I was not wrong in saying that I received great “pleasure” from your letter; for although an ignorant[4] man may derive “joy” if the cause be an honourable one, yet, since his emotion is wayward, and is likely soon to take another direction, I call it “pleasure"; for it is inspired by an opinion concerning a spurious good; it exceeds control and is carried to excess. But, to return to the subject, let me tell you what delighted me in your letter. You have your words under control. You are not carried away by your language, or borne beyond the limits which you have determined upon. 5. Many writers are tempted by the charm of some alluring phrase to some topic other than that which they had set themselves to discuss. But this has not been so in your case; all your words are compact, and suited to the subject, You say all that you wish, and you mean still more than you say. This is a proof of the importance of your subject matter, showing that your mind, as well as your words, contains nothing superfluous or bombastic. 6. I do, however,[5] find some metaphors, not, indeed, daring ones, but the kind which have stood the test of use. I find similes also; of course, if anyone forbids us to use them, maintaining that poets alone have that privilege, he has not, apparently, read any of our ancient prose writers, who had not yet learned to affect a style that should win applause. For those writers, whose eloquence was simple and directed only towards proving their case, are full of comparisons; and I think that these are necessary, not for the same reason which makes them necessary for the poets, but in order that they may serve as props to our feebleness, to bring both speaker and listener face to face with the subject under discussion. 7. For example, I am at this very moment reading Sextius;[6] he is a keen man, and a philosopher who, though he writes in Greek, has the Roman standard of ethics. One of his similes appealed especially to me, that of an army marching in hollow square,[7] in a place where the enemy might be expected to appear from any quarter, ready for battle. “This,” said he, “is just what the wise man ought to do; he should have all his fighting qualities deployed on every side, so that wherever the attack threatens, there his supports may be ready to hand and may obey the captain’s command without confusion.” This is what we notice in armies which serve under great leaders; we see how all the troops simultaneously understand their general’s orders, since they are so arranged that a signal given by one man passes down the ranks of cavalry and infantry at the same moment. 8. This, he declares, is still more necessary for men like ourselves; for soldiers have often feared an enemy without reason, and the march which they thought most dangerous has in fact been most secure; but folly brings no repose, fear haunts it both in the van and in the rear of the column, and both flanks are in a panic. Folly is pursued, and confronted, by peril. It blenches at everything; it is unprepared; it is frightened even by auxiliary troops.[8] But the wise man is fortified against all inroads; he is alert; he will not retreat before the attack of poverty, or of sorrow, or of disgrace, or of pain. He will walk undaunted both against them and among them. 9. We human beings are fettered and weakened by many vices; we have wallowed in them for a long time, and it is hard for us to be cleansed. We are not merely defiled; we are dyed by them. But, to refrain from passing from one figure[9] to another, I will raise this question, which I often consider in my own heart: why is it that folly holds us with such an insistent grasp? It is, primarily, because we do not combat it strongly enough, because we do not struggle towards salvation with all our might; secondly, because we do not put sufficient trust in the discoveries of the wise, and do not drink in their words with open hearts; we approach this great problem in too trifling a spirit. 10. But how can a man learn, in the struggle against his vices, an amount that is enough, if the time which he gives to learning is only the amount left over from his vices? None of us goes deep below the surface. We skim the top only, and we regard the smattering of time spent in the search for wisdom as enough and to spare for a busy man. 11. What hinders us most of all is that we are too readily satisfied with ourselves; if we meet with someone who calls us good men, or sensible men, or holy men, we see ourselves in his description. Not content with praise in moderation, we accept everything that shameless flattery heaps upon us, as if it were our due. We agree with those who declare us to be the best and wisest of men, although we know that they are given to much lying. And we are so self-complacent that we desire praise for certain actions when we are especially addicted to the very opposite. Yonder person hears himself called “most gentle” when he is inflicting tortures, or “most generous” when he is engaged in looting, or “most temperate” when he is in the midst of drunkenness and lust. Thus it follows that we are unwilling to be reformed, just because we believe ourselves to be the best of men. 12. Alexander was roaming as far as India, ravaging tribes that were but little known, even to their neighbours. During the blockade of a certain city, while he was reconnoitring the walls and hunting for the weakest spot in the fortifications, he was wounded by an arrow. Nevertheless, he long continued the siege, intent on finishing what he had begun. The pain of his wound, however, as the surface became dry and as the flow of blood was checked, increased; his leg gradually became numb as he sat his horse; and finally, when he was forced to withdraw, he exclaimed: “All men swear that I am the son of Jupiter, but this wound cries out that I am mortal.”[10] 13. Let us also act in the same way. Each man, according to his lot in life, is stultified by flattery. We should say to him who flatters us: “You call me a man of sense, but I understand how many of the things which I crave are useless, and how many of the things which I desire will do me harm. I have not even the knowledge, which satiety teaches to animals, of what should be the measure of my food or my drink. I do not yet know how much I can hold.” 14. I shall now show you how you may know that you are not wise. The wise man is joyful, happy and calm, unshaken; he lives on a plane with the gods. Now go, question yourself; if you are never downcast, if your mind is not harassed by any apprehension, through anticipation of what is to come, if day and night your soul keeps on its even and unswerving course, upright and content with itself, then you have attained to the greatest good that mortals can possess. If, however, you seek pleasures of all kinds in all directions, you must know that you are as far short of wisdom as you are short of joy. Joy is the goal which you desire to reach, but you are wandering from the path, if you expect to reach your goal while you are in the midst of riches and official titles,—in other words, if you seek joy in the midst of cares. These objects for which you strive so eagerly, as if they would give you happiness and pleasure, are merely causes of grief. 15. All men of this stamp, I maintain, are pressing on in pursuit of joy, but they do not know where they may obtain a joy that is both great and enduring. One person seeks it in feasting and self-indulgence; another, in canvassing for honours and in being surrounded by a throng of clients; another, in his mistress; another, in idle display of culture and in literature that has no power to heal; all these men are led astray by delights which are deceptive and short-lived—like drunkenness for example, which pays for a single hour of hilarious madness by a sickness of many days, or like applause and the popularity of enthusiastic approval which are gained, and atoned for, at the cost of great mental disquietude. 16. Reflect, therefore, on this, that the effect of wisdom is a joy that is unbroken and continuous.[11] The mind of the wise man is like the ultra-lunar firmament;[12] eternal calm pervades that region. You have, then, a reason for wishing to be wise, if the wise man is never deprived of joy. This joy springs only from the knowledge that you possess the virtues. None but the brave, the just, the self-restrained, can rejoice. 17. And when you query: “What do you mean? Do not the foolish and the wicked also rejoice?” I reply, no more than lions who have caught their prey. When men have wearied themselves with wine and lust, when night fails them before their debauch is done, when the pleasures which they have heaped upon a body that is too small to hold them begin to fester, at such times they utter in their wretchedness those lines of Vergil:[13] Thou knowest how, amid false-glittering joys. We spent that last of nights. 18. Pleasure-lovers spend every night amid false-glittering joys, and just as if it were their last. But the joy which comes to the gods, and to those who imitate the gods, is not broken off, nor does it cease; but it would surely cease were it borrowed from without. Just because it is not in the power of another to bestow, neither is it subject to another’s whims. That which Fortune has not given, she cannot take away. Farewell. ↑ A figure taken from the praetor’s edict, which was posted publicly on a white tablet, album. ↑ i.e., grief. ↑ Aeneid, vi. 278. ↑ The wise man, on the other hand, has his emotions under control, and is less likely to be swayed by “an opinion concerning a spurious good.” ↑ i.e., in spite of the fact that your style is compact. ↑ Q. Sextius was a Stoic with Pythagorean leanings, who lived in the days of Julius Caesar. He is also mentioned in Epp. lxiv. and lxxiii. A book of moral Sententiae, taken over by the church, is assigned to him, perhaps wrongly. ↑ Agmen quadratum was an army in a square formation, with baggage in the middle, ready for battle,—as contrasted with agmen iustum (close ranks), and acies triplex (a stationary formation, almost rectangular). Agmen quadratum is first found in the Spanish campaigns of the second century B.C. ↑ i.e., by the troops of the second line, who in training and quality were inferior to the troops of the legion. ↑ i.e., from that of the “fetter” to that of the “dust and dye.” In § 6 Seneca has praised Lucilius for his judicious employment of metaphors. ↑ Several similar stories are related about Alexander, e.g. Plutarch, Moralia, 180 E, where he says to his flatterers, pointing to a wound just received: “See, this is blood, not ichor!” ↑ Seneca returns to the definition of gaudium given in § 2: “True joy never ceases and never changes into its opposite.” It is not subject to ups and downs. ↑ Cf. Seneca, De Ira, iii. 6. 1. The upper firmament, near the stars, is free from clouds and storms. It is calm, though the lightning plays below. ↑ Aeneid, vi. 513 f. The night is that which preceeded the sack of Troy.
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Let's Analyse the Pattern
Mistaking temporary external highs for lasting internal satisfaction, leading to endless cycles of wanting more.
Why This Matters
Connect literature to life
This chapter teaches how to identify whether you're chasing temporary highs or building lasting satisfaction.
Practice This Today
This week, notice when you feel good about something—ask yourself if it depends on other people's reactions or circumstances staying the same, or if it comes from your own effort and character.
Now let's explore the literary elements.
Key Quotes & Analysis
"No joy can be evil"
Context: Correcting Vergil's phrase about 'evil joys' in poetry
Seneca argues that true joy - the kind that comes from wisdom - is always good because it's based on virtue. What people call 'evil joys' are actually just pleasures or thrills that feel good temporarily but cause harm.
In Today's Words:
Real happiness never comes from doing wrong - if it feels good but hurts people, it's not true joy.
"Joy is an elation of spirit - of a spirit which trusts in the goodness and truth of its own possessions"
Context: Defining what real joy means philosophically
True joy comes from having inner resources - wisdom, virtue, character - that can't be taken away. It's not about what you own but who you are.
In Today's Words:
Real happiness comes from knowing you have what it takes inside, not from stuff that can be lost.
"It is a characteristic of real joy that it never ceases, and never changes into its opposite"
Context: Explaining how joy differs from temporary pleasures
This reveals the key test of whether something is truly good for you - does it last, or does it turn into regret, anxiety, or emptiness? Real joy is stable and permanent.
In Today's Words:
If your happiness depends on things that can change or be taken away, it's not the real deal.
Thematic Threads
Self-Knowledge
In This Chapter
Seneca emphasizes honest self-assessment over accepting flattery, using Alexander's mortality as an example of facing reality
Development
Building on earlier themes of examining our true motivations and capabilities
In Your Life:
You might catch yourself believing your own hype instead of honestly evaluating where you need to grow
Class Expectations
In This Chapter
The contrast between those who chase 'false-glittering joys' and those who find contentment through wisdom
Development
Continues exploring how external status symbols distract from internal development
In Your Life:
You might feel pressure to appear successful rather than focusing on becoming genuinely capable
Personal Growth
In This Chapter
True wisdom produces unshakeable joy like calm above the clouds, while lack of wisdom leaves you vulnerable to every storm
Development
Deepens the theme of building internal strength rather than depending on circumstances
In Your Life:
You might notice whether your peace of mind depends on everything going right or comes from your ability to handle whatever happens
Human Relationships
In This Chapter
The problem isn't lack of good advice but not taking it seriously, suggesting we need honest feedback over empty praise
Development
Explores how relationships can either enable growth or keep us comfortable in delusion
In Your Life:
You might realize you're surrounding yourself with people who tell you what you want to hear rather than what you need to hear
You now have the context. Time to form your own thoughts.
Discussion Questions
- 1
According to Seneca, what's the key difference between pleasure and joy, and why does this matter for how we live?
analysis • surface - 2
Why does Seneca use the example of Alexander the Great being wounded by an arrow? What point is he making about external validation?
analysis • medium - 3
Where do you see people today chasing pleasure instead of building joy? Think about social media, career choices, or shopping habits.
application • medium - 4
How would you apply Seneca's advice to distinguish between what you can and can't control when making a major life decision?
application • deep - 5
What does this chapter reveal about why so many people feel empty despite having what they thought they wanted?
reflection • deep
Critical Thinking Exercise
Track Your Pleasure vs. Joy Patterns
For the next week, keep a simple log of moments when you feel good. Note what triggered the feeling and how long it lasted. Mark each entry as either 'pleasure' (depends on external things, fades quickly) or 'joy' (comes from within, lasts). At week's end, look for patterns in what you're actually chasing versus what delivers lasting satisfaction.
Consider:
- •Notice the difference between getting something you wanted versus accomplishing something difficult
- •Pay attention to how you feel 24 hours after different types of good moments
- •Look for times when external circumstances were tough but you still felt content
Journaling Prompt
Write about a time when you got exactly what you thought you wanted but still felt unsatisfied. What were you really looking for underneath that desire?
Coming Up Next...
Chapter 60: When Good Intentions Go Wrong
Next, Seneca tackles a disturbing truth: the prayers our loved ones made for us as children might actually be harming us today. He'll reveal why getting what we wish for can be our worst nightmare.




